Audience Interview with James Havey @ LOVE 146

I recently interviewed James Havey from LOVE 146. James is a researcher with the organisation and was an audience member at a recent performance of Touch by the Epic Encounters team. The aim of 'Touch' is to raise awareness of child sexual abuse in Cambodia. ‘Touch’ aims to help vulnerable people, especially school-aged children, to understand what to do if sexual abuse occurs. 

James was an interesting person to interview as he had seen the Epic Arts performers perform 5 years ago when the organisation was officially called a disability arts organisation. 

James Havey

In the last two years the organisation has reassessed its work and felt that the motto of ‘Every Person Counts’ and the ethos of Epic Arts was not to focus solely on working with people with disabilities and only addressing disability subject areas within the arts. The Board of Trustees made the decision to state that Epic Arts was an inclusive arts organisation, inclusive of all people. With Epic Arts being described as a disability arts organisation, some board members felt that this was 'un-inclusive' in nature, choosing only to work with those with disabilities. Now the organisation feels that an inclusive arts organisation is a better description of the work it does, work that is accessible to all and is in alignment with the message ‘Every Person Counts’. In this interview, James talks about his experiences of watching Epic Encounters perform in the past and more recently and what this made him think about the performers and the art they create, then and now.

James Havey @ Love 146

Interview Question and Answers

Epic Arts is an inclusive arts organisation. After seeing Epic Encounters perform, how would you describe inclusive arts?

In the West there is a 'pigeon holing' and labelling of people with disabilities, people like to label someone, they are disabled, they are not. When people don't label people and call them just artists instead of disabled artists, I think people are uncomfortable as they don't fit in the right box. Inclusive arts is not just about saying people with disabilities can create beautiful things but saying that they can do it the same as someone without a disability and go beyond what a non-disabled person can do as they are overcoming a hindrance and creating something unique and different. 

When I first saw Epic Arts perform 5 years ago, it was amazing how 'on cue' all the performers were, knowing that they were deaf and that's what I shared with everyone - 'they are deaf and they can dance!'. I was amazed at how they did it, as music is such an integral part to performance and they couldn't hear it. I thought they were amazing for performing as deaf people, showing the audience and society what they can do; it said to me 'look what people with disabilities can achieve'. But I think seeing them now, my view has changed.

"…..people like to label someone, they are disabled, they are not, when people don't label people and call them just artists instead of disabled artists, I think people are uncomfortable as they don't fit in the right box."

What did you see in the performance that helped you to understand the idea of being inclusive?

With the social issue performances, Touch and MOTO MOTO that Epic Encounters do now, the performance subject brings your focus away from disability and brings it to the social issue itself that affects everyone as a whole. These performances mean we (as an audience) see beyond 'ability' and 'disability'; we just see performance!  I think the clear social issues being discussed on stage take away from the disability 'issue', in a good way, meaning that the audience isn't looking in amazement at the performers, maybe with an air of pity, but rather looking at them as performers portraying something so strong and emotional with professionalism.

"I think this performance helped me to understand what inclusive arts is really about, these are not disabled artists talking about their disabilities as you think they would do, but it's about the performers, disabled and non-disabled being storytellers and having an opinion on an issue."

When I saw Epic Encounters 5 years ago, the performance was not about an issues, but was a lyrical piece with no story or obvious message, only that these people could dance despite their disability, which was a positive message. That's what I took away with me, which was inspiring and I thought what they were doing as people with disabilities was amazing and beautiful and surprising, but the focus was still on their disabilities even if this was not intentional and even though it was in a positive light. When you are watching MOTO MOTO and when you are watching Touch, you forget about the disabilities on stage and all you see is what the performers are saying about the issues that affect society as a whole here in Cambodia...you don't think 'wow look at the disabled people dancing'

What do you think are the benefits for the audience of this performance? What do you think they learnt or understood about the subject matter and about inclusivity?

I think this performance helped me to understand what inclusive arts is really about, these are not disabled artists talking about their disabilities as you think they would do, but it's about the performers, disabled and non-disabled being storytellers and having an opinion on an issue. The performers know about the issues and they have an opinion and these opinions on the issues are valued, everyone’s view is included and shared through the performance. 

I think the performers are storytellers and that they see themselves as that too, disabled or not, they are artists. I think the audience sees the performers as storytellers and they look beyond disability to just the story and to the content that is being portrayed. I think that its easy to see through the work that Epic Arts is doing that art can be an 'equaller' of people, it brings them to an equal level regardless of ability, background, status etc

…………………………………………….

What has this told me about the inclusive arts practice within this activity at Epic Arts? What are the key themes?

See Ability

James talks about how in the Western world there is a tendency to box and label people and it makes us nervous if we don't know where they fit. This often means people are labelled with a disability and all that comes with that. People are not seen as people first, but label first. The work that Epic Encounters does challenges perceptions of disability and encourages people to focus on ability.

Disability Art/Inclusive Arts

Throughout the interview, James compares work he had seen the Epic Encounters team perform 5 years ago and with work now. He felt that the work that he saw before did not have a message about something other than disability, which made the audience focus on disability and the ‘amazing things’ people with disabilities can do. He feels that now that the work that is created by Epic Encounters is issue based, the performers have become storytellers and the focus on disability and disabled performers has moved out of focus. He seems to suggest that work that is focused on disability or does not have a clear message, for him at least, highlighted disability rather than encouraging people to see artists at work.

Individual Creativity 

James believes that the performers have individual opinions and individual creative input in to the performance, they are not just participants but active creators, artists and storytellers that are all valued.

High Quality

James says that he sees the performers very much as artists in their own right, with an opinion on issues and on creativity and performance. James notes that the performers portray difficult issues in a strong and professional way, showing that there is a high level of quality in the work.

Equality

James says that from the work that Epic Arts does he can see that the arts can be a leveler for people, everyone can be brought on to an equal footing through the arts and this helps inclusion

Thank you for taking the time to read this blog, please feel free to add comments or to email me at laura@epicarts.org.uk