Interview with Chakriya, HR Officer @ Epic Arts

Chakriya is the Human Resources Officer at Epic Arts, she has been with the organisation for over 6 years. She is a wheelchair user and featured in this film about her struggles as a person with a disability in Cambodia and how her time with Epic Arts has effected her:

Chakriya, HR Officer @ Epic Arts

Interview Thoughts and Comments

How would you describe inclusive arts?

For me inclusive arts is about bringing together different people from different cultures, backgrounds and experiences through dance, theatre, art and music. It's working well together and being together whilst being creative. I think people think that at Epic Arts we just work with people with disabilities and they are surprised to find we work with all different people. When I explain to people what we do I make it very clear that we work with everyone and we want to explore arts with different people from different places and situations and see what is created through being inclusive.

What do you think are the things that you do or think that make successful inclusive arts happen at Epic Arts?.... Can you give me an example?

At Epic Arts, everyone has a job to do and is expected to do it to the best level they can, it does not matter who you are or if you have a disability or not, you are an equal part of the team. I have a disability, but this does not make a difference to the work I do or my role at Epic Arts. Everyone has different abilities and we try to understand each other's strengths and weaknesses to connect and work as a team. For me the most important attitude I have and the other people that I work with have to enable inclusive work is the attitude of acceptance, this is also combined with being able to share and talk and help each other develop by giving feedback.

In my particular job I also need to be adaptable and adapt documents so that people can access information. I am currently working with our Cambodian Sign translator to create signed videos of our policy documents at Epic Arts. These videos are very important, as many of our staff, who are deaf, cannot read so having a document for them is not useful and they cannot hear someone reading it. We are making videos of the policies and putting them on YouTube so that the staff can watch them whenever they need to check anything. We are also developing images that can be added to documents that all staff use, such as the leave form, so that the staff who are deaf, who cannot read, can access the forms and use them independently. The documents are inclusive with Khmer, English and images; this is a very important part of my job to make HR resources and documents inclusive in this inclusive arts organisation.

What do you think other people need to do or think to make successful inclusive arts happen?

I think for me as a wheelchair user it is important for people to think about the accessibility of where activities happen. The Epic Arts centre is wonderful as I can move around easily and access all places independently. When I first finished school and was looking for a job in Cambodia I could not take any job because of the buildings. I would go for the interview and I could do the job but I could not access the building to do the job.

Communication is also very important to ensure everyone can understand what is happening and then this means everyone can be included in an activity or a conversation and are not excluded. Also I think that people need to share the inclusive art that is created, whatever this is, so all people can learn and understand about inclusive arts.

You say people need to share work and to be adaptable. Have you ever seen that happening at Epic Arts or outside of Epic Arts?..... Can you give me an example?

When our performance team go out to the village and share what they have created as a team, it makes people really understand about what we do. People see what people can do and this helps them understand what people are capable of.

“When I first finished school and was looking for a job in Cambodia I could not take any job because of the buildings. I would go for the interview and I could do the job but I could not access the building to do the job.”

For many people in the villages in Cambodia, this is the first time they have ever seen people with and without disabilities working together and the first time they have seen someone with a disability do anything other than stay in their homes. It's such a big thing to share and show what we do, as people learn from it and go away and tell others and it also inspires people to do new things and understand what they could do with their lives.

What do you think people do or think that can stop successful inclusive arts from happening?

When people are unaware of what is possible and put a restriction on someone before they are given the chance to do it, this can affect inclusive arts. People not having an understanding or any knowledge about people who are different from them can make them fearful or judgemental.

Have you ever experienced this yourself in your life and can you give me an example?

Many times in my life I have wanted to do something and then someone has told me I cannot because I am in a wheelchair, but they do not even let me try. I find this very frustrating but it also makes me want to try something more and work out a way of doing it if it makes me happy and I want to, it makes me more determined! In Cambodia this is a big problem, people with disabilities are told they cannot do many things and they believe this and think they cannot without even trying, they miss out on doing many things because someone else has decided that they cannot do it.

When I was growing up I went to school, but had to prove everyday what I could do. People were not mean to me, but because they did not understand me and see that I am the same as them, they would isolate me or tell me I could not join activities; they just did not have enough knowledge about me and decided my abilities for me. I had to understand that they were not aware and I did not want to get angry with them, but they needed to learn about what was the right way to think about me. I learnt to be confident to say to people in a kind, caring way when they were leaving me out or making decisions for me, I did not want to make people feel bad, I just wanted them to learn. As I said before communication is very important, if I do not communicate how I feel, people cannot learn.

“ In Cambodia… people with disabilities are told they cannot do many things and they believe this and think they cannot without even trying, they miss out on doing many things because someone else has decided that they cannot do it.”

All the time in Cambodia people think that because I have a disability I cannot do many things. I recently went to a conference in Phnom Penh and when I got there many people where surprised to see a person in a wheelchair. I went to the desk to sign in and the man behind the desk gave me a form to complete, he looked at me and then said he would write it for me. I had to explain kindly that I could do it myself; he had looked at me and had decided I could not do something that I could do very easily. At Epic Arts we try in all the things we do to show people what we can do so that people can learn and understand about the abilities of all people, whether this is performing or making a piece of art or attending a meeting, we show people what we can do, we need to get out there and show people what is possible.

Many people in Cambodia with a disability do not leave their house because they think they cannot and many people in their village think they cannot. This means they do not make friends and do not take part in life like everyone else. Everyone around them tells them they have a disability and that they need to stay still stay in one place and that, that is all they can do with their lives.

“At Epic Arts we try in all the things we do to show people what we can do so that people can learn and understand about the abilities of all people, whether this is performing or making a piece of art or attending a meeting, we show people what we can do, we need to get out there and show people what is possible.”

Many times I feel people do not have the understanding here in Cambodia about different people. Our education is not good and many people do not learn want they need to learn, many don't go to school and only know what they see in their villages. Also our tradition and religion in Cambodia does not help to make a positive attitude about disability. The temples and pagodas do not make it possible for people with a disability to access them and visiting these places is a big part of our culture and family traditions, so if we cannot participant in this we are isolated again. If I want to go to the pagoda I have to go with people who are strong enough to lift me and carry me around, it's very difficult.

“One monk even told me that I probably broke the legs of a bird or small animal and that is why my legs do not work. I hate to hear this, it makes me feel like my body is a punishment and that I was a bad person.”

I do not like going to the pagoda often, I only go with my family for traditional celebrations as the monks say bad things to me. Monks have told me many times that it is my fault I have a disability, they say that in my past life I must have done something very bad like kill somebody and that is way I have a disability. One monk even told me that I probably broke the legs of a bird or small animal and that is why my legs do not work. I hate to hear this, it makes me feel like my body is a punishment and that I was a bad person. I talk to many of my friends with disabilities about this attitude and traditional belief and they all have a story that is similar, they are all told that they are disabled because of something they did in a past life.  I do not believe what the monks say and I do not want to let this idea stay with me, I do not want to think I am a prisoner for my whole life because of something bad I did before.

…………………………………………….

What has this told me about the inclusive arts practice within this activity at Epic Arts? What are the key themes?

Team Work

Chakriya explains that at Epic Arts everyone has a role and a job to do and everyone works hard as part of this team to do this.  She says that within the team everyone has strengths and weaknesses but that people are aware of these and connect together in the team to make it work as a unit.

Communication

Chakriya talks about her role in ensuring the clear communication of all documents and that she must adapt documents to ensure everyone can access them. She is creating policy videos so that those people who are deaf can review policies, with Cambodian sign, at any time. She is also working to develop images that can be added to documents to enable clearer communication and understanding of all people who use the documents. Chakriya mentions communication again when she talks about telling people about how she feels when they decide she cannot do something. She says she must communicate how she feels so that other people learn and become more aware

Disability in Cambodia

Chakriya talks passionately about access and how in Cambodia she has not been able to do many jobs purely because the space is inaccessible for her. The building at Epic Arts is accessible and this meant that she could accept a job there. She has experienced this problem throughout her life in Cambodia; not being able to access school, pagodas, University buildings etc.  She talks about how, in Cambodia, many people with disabilities are told that they cannot do anything and so they do not try as they have been told over and over that they just cannot do anything. Chakriya shared a personal experience about the affects of tradition and religion on attitude in Cambodia towards people with disabilities; many people with disabilities are seen as being bad or bad luck due to religion traditional.

Share

Chakriya thinks it is important to share inclusive art work that is created with the wider world so that people can become more aware and understand what it is. She sees the effect that the performance team has on an audience when they go out in to a village. She sees that people understand more when they see the work in action and understand about people with and without disabilities working together and the possibilities for people with disabilities in Cambodia. She thinks that publicly sharing this work inspires people who watch and they then go and tell others and the message spreads.

See Ability

Chakriya notes that when people are unaware of the possibilities for people with disabilities, then they can restrict people from doing things rather than letting them try. Chakriya shares that many times she has been told she cannot do something because she is in a wheelchair and she is not even allowed to try. She shares a story about when someone assumed that she could not complete a form just because she was in a wheelchair.

Care

Chakriya shares that when she is told she cannot do something, she feels angry, but she does not want to be angry with people for making a mistake. She understands that people just do not have knowledge about her and that she cannot be angry with them. She cares about people’s feelings and will be honest with them, but is caring in the way she does it.

Knowledge

Chakriya says that without knowledge of other people who may be different from us, fear and judgment can grow. This fear and judgment pushes people who are different away and stops inclusive work from happening.

A ‘Can Do’ Attitude

Chakriya says that whenever she is told she cannot do something because she is in a wheelchair, it makes her more determined to try and do it and prove that she can