Interview with Buntheng, Operations Manager @ Epic Arts

Buntheng has worked with Epic Arts for 3 year, firstly as a volunteer and then as an administrator. He is now the Operations Manager at the organisation and part of the Cambodian Management Team. Buntheng has a young son with Downs Syndrome who attends the Special Education Project at Epic Arts.

Buntheng, Operations Manager @ Epic Arts

Interview Thoughts and Comments

How would you describe inclusive arts?

At Epic Arts I see that inclusive arts is about using lots of different kinds of arts with many different people. The inclusive arts at Epic Arts includes all people and all cultures, we use Western and Cambodian artistic styles and mix them together. Everyone is included at Epic Arts in the art that is created, but also in the other work people do. It does not matter what job you have at Epic Arts, whether you are a manager or a caretaker, everyone is treated equally. What we try and share and teach in our way of doing arts is also the same in all areas of working at Epic Arts. What is special about the work we do is that we work with people with and without disabilities together at the same time and equally and we use the arts to do this.

Many people in Cambodia work with people with disabilities but often to provide them with help and treatment and not mixing together with people who do not have a disability.  Organisations give them training in only a small selection of things and often there is no choice. I think this is because people sometimes think that people with disabilities can only fix a motorbike or feed chickens, they cannot think for themselves or be the same as other people or have the same desires as other people. I think Inclusive arts promotes the value and creativity of single every person.

What do you think are the things that you do or think that make successful inclusive arts happen at Epic Arts?.... Can you give me an example?

In my admin work I have to adapt many documents as we have many different people with different abilities, different understanding and different cultures. We have three languages in use at Epic Arts – Khmer, Cambodian Sign and English. We have a policy of how we make sure our documents are inclusive of all the people in the organisation and I work on making some of these documents. I change documents to make sure they have Khmer, English and pictures to enable all people to be able to understand the documents.

As the tour manager of Epic Encounters I am responsible for organizing all performances for the team and I have to make sure that the audience can access the performance on all levels, I do this by making sure we have different languages used when we present a performance and I also create picture based timetables for my team so everyone can understand the plan for the day. We always try to be inclusive of all people in the audience and to set an example for others to follow in terms of including audiences. I go to many performances with the team that only have one language used and there are people who speak English and people who speak Khmer in the audience, but no body thinks about translation and then one group is isolated and can not understand.

I think the work we do is very important and it’s very important that we share what we do with others. With the performance team in Cambodia, it is good for them to travel to many places and show many people what they can do, as people do not think people with disabilities can do anything in Cambodia. I see that the performance team teach people about ability through the performances and show them that people with and without disabilities can work together equally. When the dancers come on stage and sign, I hear Khmer people whispering saying ‘How will they dance they cannot hear?’ and when they see a dancer with a wheelchair come on to stage they look confused and think that it would be impossible for him to dance. I like it when the team starts to perform and show people what they can do; many people learn and understand then.

What do you think other people need to do or think to make successful inclusive arts happen?

At Epic Arts we look for people with ‘Epic DNA’, I think this is a person who is enthusiastic and passionate abut the work we do, someone who wants to explore being creative or learning or working with different people. A person is accepting accepting of all others and someone who is not selfish or thinks they are more important than other people. A person with ‘Epic DNA’ is someone who can share responsibility, work as a team and encourage people to do their best.

You say people need to …..Have you ever seen that happening at Epic Arts or outside of Epic Arts?..... Can you give me an example?

When we are on tour everyone works together as a team. There is a mixture of disabilities, but everyone takes equal responsibility on the tour, everyone has jobs for setting up ready for a performance or packing away the equipment and everyone works together. There is no excuse to not do something, as we all know the strengths and weaknesses of each person and then join together as a team to make it all work. For example when we finish a performance we have to pack everything in to the van, there are some jobs that people can do and some that they can’t so we just work out what everyone can do. Sokun who is a wheelchair user cannot help to carry the dance floor down the stairs because of his chair, but he packs the costumes and wheels the case to the stairs ready for the rest of the team to take down. It is the same when we set up for a performance, Noth, who is deaf can not set up and check the sound system because he is deaf, so Sokun will do this and Noth will set out the floor and the lights.,. they work to their strengths, but everyone works.

Have you ever experienced this yourself and can you give me an example?

I have learnt many things from working at Epic Arts; by working so closely with a mix of people and seeing how many good things come from including people, I want to spread this way of working out in to the world so we can have an inclusive society here in Cambodia. I have a son with Downs Syndrome and before I came to Epic Arts, I was embarrassed about him and people always stared at him. I did not think he would be able to do anything, but now that he is at Epic Arts, I see that he can do many things, because people make sure that everyone can be included in an activity by making small changes to an activity, my son is now accepted and I am very proud of him.

When I am outside of work, I try to be inclusive in the way that I act, as I want people to know that we can all live like this. I think people can do this and can accept people and include all people. In my community we have a problem with our road at the moment and we are trying to all collect some dirt for the road to fix it. Some people can afford to get a lot of dirt for the road and some cannot, but we are all giving what we can and all working together to make the road better. I think this shows my community can be inclusive, as they do not get angry with people who can only give a little dirt, they accept it and we join together to solve the problem.

What do you think people do or think that can stop successful inclusive arts from happening?

I think that if people are not aware of people around them and how they are feeling and acting, then sometimes you cannot see that a person is excluded. You need to be aware of other people, look and listen to others, not be shut in your own head and your own experience, you need to look out and see what other people are feeling and experiencing.

All people need to have value and feel they have a purpose too, its important in inclusive arts not to take away someone’s purpose because you think you are better at it, or you can do it quicker. When do anything in inclusive arts, there needs to be patience and understanding that everyone should be valued and everyone has a purpose and that they should not be taken from them by making a decisions for a person or staying someone cant do it well enough, so someone else should do it.

I also think that if people do not have an understanding or knowledge about different people they can be fearful and this can stop inclusive arts from happening, because there is fear and uncertainly. This happens a lot in Cambodia! Last year I took Epic Encounters to Kampong Thom, which is an isolated province in Cambodia. Three of the team went for a walk in to the town in the afternoon, they were all deaf. As the three people walked down three roads they were signing to each other. Suddenly the police stopped them as they had never seem people signing or people who were deaf before so they tried to arrest them as they thought that they were bad people. I had to go and meet the police and explain that they were deaf and that sign language is the way they communicate before they would let them go.

Because many people with disabilities in Cambodia do not leave their houses, people do not meet them and they are scared when they do, this then causes discrimination. This is why the performance work with do all over Cambodia is so important, as we need to show people what people with disabilities can do, we need to make people aware that they can be the same as everyone else.

…………………………………………….

What has this told me about the inclusive arts practice within this activity at Epic Arts? What are the key themes?

Equality

Buntheng says that at Epic Arts equality works on all levels and that everyone is valued and treated equality regardless of culture or job status. He says that the way, in which art is taught and created within the organisation in an inclusive way, filters through the rest of the organisation. Buntheng also mentions equality when talking about the performers on tour and that each person has an equal responsibility according to their strengths.

Disability in Cambodia

Buntheng sees that in Cambodia there are a number of organisations working with people who are disabled but that their focus is on treatment and rehabilitation. When there is training, it is often limited to a few skills that are deemed acceptable or possible for people with disabilities to do. Buntheng also shares a personal experience about his son and how he was embarrassed about him before, as many people in Cambodia did not understand his condition, but he has seen how a different approach has enabled his son to be an active member of the community. Buntheng also shares a story about the police in a village arresting deaf performers because they were not aware of deaf people or sign languages.

Individual Creativity

Buntheng believes that inclusive arts promotes value and the creativity of each individual person.

Communication

Part of Buntheng’s role is to assist in the changing of documents to make sure that they are understood by different people at Epic Arts. He points out that there are three languages involved in the organisation and that communicating effectively is important. He also says that in his role as the tour manager, it's a key aspect of his work that he ensures that the audience can access the performance whether that is physically or auditory. He has seen a number of times, in Cambodia, how bad communication can isolate an entire group of people because communication with the audience has not been considered.

Share

Buntheng sees the relevance of sharing the work and methods at Epic Arts with the wider community. He believes that by sharing performances and experiences of inclusive arts practice with people around Cambodia it changes their attitude and they learn about the ability of people with disabilities and that people with and without disabilities can work alongside each other. He feels that through the performances from Epic Encounters in local villages, people with disabilities can see and learn about their own potential.

Acceptance

Buntheng describes a person with ‘Epic DNA’ as someone who accepts all other people. Buntheng gives the example of his community and how they are working together to repair the road; as a community they accept that not everyone can help in the same way, but that everyone can help in some way. 

Teamwork

Buntheng highlights the importance of being a team member and not being selfish or thinking you are better than someone else. He says that someone with ‘Epic DNA’ is someone who works within a team by understanding about shared responsibility and encouraging others in their work.

Inclusive Ambassador

Buntheng explains that he believes he should actively share the message of inclusion when he is out of work and in his community. By doing this he hopes people will learn that we can all live in a more inclusive way.

Listen

Buntheng feels that people need to be aware of the people around them and how they are reacting to a situation. By looking and listening to others you can see where they are feeling excluded and make a change. He is encouraging others to be sensitive to the experiences of those around us and be aware and tuned to others needs and feelings.

See Ability

Buntheng talks about the idea of ensuring everyone has purpose and value and is seen as able to do their work. This is not just relevant to people with disabilities but to all people working at Epic Arts. Doing someone’s job for him or her because you feel you are better or faster, removes that's persons ability to do the job and learn. In the work that Epic Arts does, development can only happen when ability is seen in all people and time is take to encourage this ability.

Knowledge

Buntheng recognizes that without knowledge and understanding of others, fear can stop inclusive arts from happening and can cause exclusion. The story he shares about the performance team visiting Kampong Thom and having problems with the police highlights how significant knowledge